What should the role of women be in the church today?

Responses

G. W. responded in The Testimony, Vol 4, No 37, January, 1934

• "There is neither male nor female : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." This is our starting point. A woman is as much an heir of the promises of God as a man and no distinction should be made in this respect. A woman, remember, is no longer the chattel, the slave, of a man, and no one professing to he a disciple of Jesus can hold this view.

  On the other hand the inference must not be pushed to the other extreme, for it is possible for two persons, both heirs, to be unequally suited for a particular task in connection with that heirship. I submit that public speaking in the Name of the Truth is a task for which she is not suited. A woman friend of mine has admitted that women often reach their decisions by the channel of the heart and not the head. I say this with all courtesy and deference to them, but I think that they are temperamentally unsuited for public discourse. I think that it was upon this basis that the Apostle Paul laid down his rule, " Let Your women keep silence in the churches," for no matter how important the advances that civilisation may make, it can never alter the temperament of a woman, built as it is to withstand experiences foreign to a man. But this veto upon public discourse does not debar her from active work in the Cause of the Truth ; no, far from it ; there is rich soil to he tilled ; the children, both in the home and in the Sunday School, for what man call shape and mould the young lives as a woman, with her strong maternal affection ? I know of one brave soul, a mother of four children, living in the wilds, far away from her homeland, who is bringing up her children " in the fear of the Lord," in a way and with a zeal, which no man could imitate.

  There is work for both men and women in the labour of the Lord," each in his or her respective sphere, for each has qualifications which the other does not possess. The present advance of the prestige of women is, I think, a striking sign of the times, a preparation of the peoples of the world, for the day, which is now at the very doors, when immortalised beings, once male and female, once called Man and Woman, will be despatched as missionaries throughout the length and breadth of the earth, preaching the gospel of the established Kingdom of God, a condition of nature in which " they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Mrs B. A. responded in The Testimony, Vol 4, No 38, February, 1934

• This is a question which cannot be treated within the narrow limits of the text, but must be considered from a viewpoint of wider scope, and in order to bring clear judgment to bear we must try to divest ourselves of the influence of that natural love we feel for our own.

  The subject is one which good men, and bad men too, from opposite motives, prefer to avoid: a reticence which is probably the most potent weapon in the armoury Of ambitious women. Hence we have with us that perversion of the Divine Will referred to as " Emancipation of Women." If we *ere able to attribute to that a greater regard for virtue than existed in, say, Victorian days, there might be something to say for it. But are the "chattel's " and those unhappy women whom bad men "offend," fewer in number to-day ? Is not the prevailing impiety, which we deplore, nothing but the inevitable stage of decadence when man abdicates, woman usurps and both repent at the end, the same sin of disobedience as at the beginning?

  Even if we need admit the charge of hypocrisy brought against Victorians, was not their implied simulation Of virtue at least a tribute to virtue; and having in it therefore the seed of a greater hope than is to be found in these days of impudent repudiation?

  As regards Scriptural authority it should not be necessary to remind Christadelphians of Divine sentence passed upon woman for the beginning of sin, nor to point to the opinions of the apostle Paul. His opinions have the same weight as if uttered by the Beloved Master.

  It seems that the present disobedience and revolt against the Divine law of life is the surest sign of a near end to the Gentile dispensation ; that the present world-wide distress and perplexity is the natural and inevitable consequence of such disobedience ; and that every clear-thinking person who has not our knowledge and our Faith can only see ahead race destruction and submergence under barbarism.

  Meantime, let us rejoice that just as there always have been, there are still, many good women who are not rebels ; and that in many cases there are still men achieving what the world acclaims as success who owe what glory there may be, to a woman's vision and her loving devotion. May such win the great reward Concerning the attitude of women in the meeting of the church, Paul says : 1 Cor. 14, 34, " Let your woman keep silence in the churches : for it is not permitted unto them to speak ; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything let them ask their hus­bands at home ; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." Also 1 Tim. 2, 12, " But I suffer not a woman to teach. . . ."  the teaching with authority as Jesus did, Matt. 7, 29. This agreed with the Synagogue meetings, where teaching, questions, disputing were allowed to men and boys, as in the case of the Lord Jesus, but not to women. It would be usurping authority over the man if she publicly argued and disputed.

  On the other hand it is evident that women prayed and prophesied (1 Cor. 11, 5) and Paul gives directions regard­ing their attire, in order that while so doing they should not dishonour their head or husband (v. 3). In Acts 21, v. 9, the four daughters of Philip are mentioned as prophesying, in which con­nection Peter's quotation from Joel Acts 2, 17, is of interest : ". . . I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy . . ." This prophesying is not necessarily foretelling but can be expounding. If these women who prayed and prophesied possessed the Spirit, it would make an exception to the general rule ; or there is the possibility that the praying and prophesying took place, not at the Lord's Supper, but in instructing the young, baptism of women and other suitable occasions.

  Considering the position of women in the church as the body of Christ, much of what they did in Paul's day is applicable to our own. In Rom. 16, 1, we read that Phebe was a servant, deaconess. or minister of the church, the same as the deacons in l Tim. 3, 8. In the early-church there seem. to have been these women, some of whose duties were to attend the sick, distribute to the poor, teach and attend women at baptism. The destitute widows were employed in this way by the church, and Tryphena, Tryphosa and Persis who laboured in the Lord, and the well-known Dorcas, may have been of this class.

  Much is said in the Epistles of hospitality, an important virtue among early believers. Few inns existed, hence the need for the washing of the feet and the lodging of the wearied stranger. Circumstances of travel are different now, but the need for hospitality still remains. Often a brother has to spend Sundays away from his wife and children because they were not thought of when the brother was invited to speak. Many brethren and sisters lead lonely lives because they are little known, being poor and shy. Some are unable to attend meetings regularly on account of the journey being too long or too expensive. True hospitality would reach all these, and it is within the power of sisters to extend.

  Another duty of the women is the care of the home and the teaching of children; the latter, at any rate, a pleasant task which should not be left entirely to the Sunday School. How much good may be done in this way is strikingly shewn by Paul's reference to the grandmother and mother of Timothy (2 Tim. 1, 5) whose father was a Greek (Acts 16, 1.)

  Again, in visiting the sick, sometimes more than a mere chat is necessary a working hand is required.

  In conclusion, it is a difficult matter to understand exactly how the women behaved and what they did in apostolic times and to apply it in these days as their churches appear to have been differently constituted from our own meetings. Perhaps a prior question is necessary the position of brethren in the church. In his epistle to Timothy, Paul speaks of elders who received honour or maintenance for their work and had authority, of deacons and of the laying on of hands ; while James speaks of praying over the sick and anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord.

  What is the position of brethren in the church?

E. T. responded in The Testimony, Vol 4, No 38, February, 1934

• There can be no doubt as to one paramount instruction" Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the Church." There we have a commandment in things natural, based upon an eternal, spiritual principle. One other important point should be considered under this heading. The wife•whose husband has not obeyed the word is to be in subjection to her husband. The Apostle Peter (1 Peter 3, 1-6) adds to the advice of Paul, and his advice is that of a married man. Peter states in as many words that an unbelieving husband may be won to the Truth, but it probably will not be by the preaching of the wife. It will be by her "conversation." And that "conversation " means not talk, but " behaviour.' Towards her unbelieving husband the attitude of the " Woman in the church" is to be chaste and respectful. Much unnecessary sorrow has been caused because worthy and well-meaning sisters have thought, and thought wrongly, that "putting the Truth first" means going to all possible meetings, and wearying her husband with her religious views " in season and out of season."

  And when things go wrong she thinks her lot is a hard one, whereas it is largely because she has not rightly divided the word of truth. It is a mistake to suppose that the duty to the unbelieving husband automatically con­flicts with her duty to her Christian. faith. Her duty to her husband, even though he be not of the faith, is her duty to her faith'. The ornament of a meek and quiet spirit and the loving discharge of her household duties so as to make her husband happy and comfortable, "is in the sight of God of great price."

  By such behaviour she may win her husband to the Truth without so much as preaching a single syllable of its doctrines. In passing, it has to be borne in mind that the Apostle is referring to those who were married before they accepted Christianity. Those who were single on embracing it were expected to marry only those of like precious faith.

  From the Acts of the Apostles and in particular 1 Timothy 5, there is no doubt that in the early Christian Church women took an active part. But character was the necessary qualification for the undertaking of these duties. Mostly the work was done by elderly widows. The younger married women were not expected to participate in it. The concern of the married woman in the Church is with her home. Her own home. These things are definitely and categorically condemned : Idleness ; care about personal adornment (1 Peter 3, I-6) ; wandering from house to house and tattling ; being busybodies. There is serious need to emphasise these things in these days.

  Some have thought that there was an "order " of deaconesses in the early church, but there was nothing more than that the help of the elderly sisters was arranged " decently and in order," the same as the work of the brethren had to be.

  So far, then, we have seen that there is nothing to indicate that women had any part in the public and vocal work of the Truth. Is there a definite prohibition? The answer must be Yes. It is the more emphatic because it follows general counsel, of which again there can be no mistake. "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." To the Corinthians the Apostle is still more emphatic (1 Cor. 14, 34-35.) Here Paul gives striking reasons for his command, which go back to Genesis, The woman is not to teach or to usurp authority because Adam was first formed. That is the first reason. It was Adam's place to teach his wife and he was taught of God.

  The second reason is more subtle. "And Adam was not deceived ; but the woman, being deceived, was in the transgression " The implication, surely. is clear. Adam did wrong and knew he was doing wrong ; there was no question as to his transgression ; it was sheer disobedience. Eve was deceived. The lust of the eye and the palate and the desire for wisdom caused her to be entirely deceived, and so she was in the transgression. " The woman, being deceived." That is given by the Apostle as a ufficient reason why the daughters of Eve shall keep silence in the church. It is essential that teaching shall be pure and true.

  "The serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die . . . and when the woman saw . . . she took the fruit thereof and did eat ; and gave also to her husband with her, and he did eat."

  The woman, being deceived, tempted her husband to do wrong. As mankind takes after his first parent, Adam, so do the daughters of Eve, of necessity partake of the nature of their mother. I think the history of religion will shew  including the history of Christendom that the dominance of women always has led to disaster.

  But in love and gratitude we conclude with the Apostle. It is stated that in the Greek the idea expressed is that she shall be saved in the child-bearing ; something more is meant than that woman's salvation is in motherhood. I think so. The child-bearing. Her seed shall bruise the serpent's head:

  "Thou shalt bring forth a son, and shalt call His Name Jesus . . and that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

C. J. B. responded in The Testimony, Vol 4, No 39, March, 1934

• The position of women in the Church. One wonders whether in discussing a matter such as this, we ought not first to ponder over the lesson of Christ,s answer to the question, "Are there few that be saved " (Luke 13. 23.) The reply was one which, while not directly answering the question, did in effect answer it, by placing the questioner in a wiser frame of mind so that he could face up to the broader issues. In this instance the questioner is forced to examine first his own spiritual needs, rather than to think of himself as in a superior position compared with others.

  In a word, we need to grasp firmly, general principles, and in that way, solve for ourselves many of our difficulties. There is inherent in the mere asking and answering of questions, the danger of seeking (and asserting) the voice of authority, as in the Catholic Church ; instead of each of us hammering out for ourselves, the answers to our questioning, by a little hard thinking.

  It is then essential first of all to relate Scripture statement to its context. Next we need to remember that all Scripture statement is not necessarily of universal application or eternal validity. The Mosaic Law is an instance of what is broadly stated in 1 Cor. 13. 8.

  Basically, it is the righteousness of the heart (Jer. 31. 33) which is the end in view. In the process of shaping His special people, God does not just dictate to, but rather moves his servants (without distinction of sex) and in their own way, without any suppression of their personality, but rather indeed making use of it, to declare His will. This is done in common everyday speech and other current modes of literary forms. Thus we see Moses trained in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and Paul in that of the Rabbis, making full use of this special equipment, in addition to their own natural gifts or other qualifications.

  Thus messengers, seers, prophets, poets, apostles, perform their appointed tasks within these limitations. Observe how the prophetic pictures of the good time coming, take shape in imagery drawn from surrounding and familiar circumstances and are thus easily grasped, by those to whom the message is addressed. The ideal future is described in terms of what would be ideal in the present—compare for instance the relatively limited view of a mere restoration of physical Israel in the Prophets, with the beatific vision of the final glory, in the writings of John. It is equally necessary to take into account the general historical situation in the consideration of particular passages of Scrip­ture, as well as the immediately antecedent causes which led to their being written.

  Now the passages 1 Corinthians and I Timothy as regards the position of women in the Church, do not present any real difficulty, when all the relevant circumstances are taken into account. Firstly, in reading the Pauline Epistles we need to visualise the political and social background of the Graeco-Roman world of that day, especially as manifested in the life and activity of the great cities such as Ephesus and Corinth. There was outward prosperity and yet much dire poverty. The glamour of Greece and Rome shone out in the great buildings, many dedicated to religious uses of which much was of a gravely immoral character ; as also in the elaborate and complex organization of government both local and imperial of a widely flung empire. It was outwardly a unity, but with no real moral cohesion. The description of Paul in Romans (ch. 2) does not exaggerate the general moral confusion. It was a sick world. That this factor constituted a real danger, especially to the newly won converts from heathenism, is clearly shewn, by the constant exhortation to purity in the epistles. Yet both the Apostle Paul and his converts belonged to their time, and in measure shared its fashions and prejudices. For instance, it was not considered seemly for women to wear short hair or men long, a re­flection of contemporary customs and prohibitions.

  In 1 Tim. 2. 10 Paul shewed clearly where the emphasis must be put. Hence it was not wise to act, in such things as dress, exactly as the world acted. The world sought for satisfaction now Christians are concerned with the duty of witnessing for God as called out from the world for this very purpose. Some fashions had, however, a darker aspect a certain class of women of immoral character, appeared in public unveiled therefore decent respectable women did not. Yet some women converts in the enthusiasm of their newly found Christian liberty (freedom R.V.) had even dared to appear in the church with unveiled heads. It was an obvious case where the principle set out in respect of meats (1 Cor. 8. 9-13) applied. This reminds us of the compromise decision of the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15) where in the concluding passage (v. 29) certain prohibitions are imposed on Gentile converts. This was a temporary measure, bridging over the transition period be­tween Judaism and fully fledged Christianity. Without this decision, Paul,s work could not have gone forward. In his epistles written later, Paul takes the matter through to its logical conclusion (Mark 7. 19 R.V.). But finally let us ob­serve the passage in 1 Tim. 1. 3 ff. and generally the reference to the disorders in the Corinthian Church, some very grave both in behaviour and teaching. It was to deal with this situation that the epistle was penned. Obviously, the letter of many of the regulations arising out of this particular situation, could not but be of temporary validity. The discipline was a part of the needful train­ing of these Gentile converts to a proper understanding of their call, as one to the righteousness looked forward to by the prophet Jeremiah (ch. 31. 33) a passage cited by the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews towards the conclusion of his great argument (ch. 10. 16). But what of the immediate question, it will be asked ? Are sisters to speak in public, to take part in meetings, business and other, to hold classes and so on?

  I suggest it is for us to apply the principles I have endeavoured to set out, and answer the questions ourselves, in relation to the special circumstances of our own time. In this connection we need to remember especially that the Sermon on the Mount is not a new legal code, but the principle of the new life in Christ, stated in parabolic form and concerned with the shaping and perfect­ing of the Christian character. And they have to be applied by each one of us in the varying circumstances of our lives both as individuals and in our corporate capacity as members of ecclesias.

  The opening beatitudes with their description of the true beatific character, makes that ever clear. The rest of the discourse hangs on that magnificent text.