Dear Bro. John,
Greetings in the divine Name.
I was pleased to read your first instalment on Daniel’s prophecy, and have to agree, regrettably that it is the Brotherhood rather than the public which has no great appetite for prophecy in these days. I also go along with you on the point that, just as the arms of silver indicated a dual expression of the Medo-Persian Empire, so the belly and thighs (or side) represent a duality in the Greek Empire after the time of Alexander the Great.
However, I don’t think I go along with the suggestion that the Seleucid North and the Ptolemaic South are represented by the two thighs, but rather hold to the view that the relatively Eastern division of the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Kingdom is one thigh, and the relatively Western division which began with Lysimachus and Cassander is the other. You rightly observe that, from Daniel’s prophetic point, these two (directly north and south of the land upon which God’s eyes are fixed from the beginning of the year to the end of the year, and which are progressively extended in chapter 8, and again further extended in chapter 11) take precedence of treatment, since they concern so dramatically Daniel’s people after the flesh, and since these events precede the things predicted about the New Israel of God.
Chapter 7 appears to begin at approximately the same period as chapter 8, but as I see it, goes down the Western thigh and leg, both records terminating in the millennial reign of Christ.
Although there was a more or less separate development of East and West, together they remained the Kingdom of men as opposed to the Kingdom of God. That Daniel treats almost exclusively with the Eastern division, by no means discounts the development of the West, which in due time was to enter the prophetic arena. The Little Horn of the goat did not arise on either the Northern power or the Southern power, but, though Roman, arose on one of the other Grecian horns; hence it was relatively Western.
Bro. Thomas describes how that this occurred when Antiochus, bent on the defeat of the South, was interrupted in his quest by the Romans, who came at the request of Egypt, picking up hastily on their way a navy from Greece (the brass) and how Antiochus, frustrated, took it out on Palestine as he returned to his own land. The introduction of this saviour for Egypt ended the conflicts of the north and south, the Romans now asserting their dominance, and we hear no more of a King of the North and a King of the South until the latter days.
I suggest that the emergence of Russia and her confederates, just as required by Ezekiel’s prophecies, is as the new King of the North and following that astonishing turnabout which occurred on the death (prematurely) of President Nasser and his replacement by President Sadat, Egypt, as of old, is again the King of the South, having as her allies America, Britain and probably Israel. This may seem unlikely, with Britain aligned at present with Europe; but since Britain alone of the Europeans has a commitment to Israel, and since the King of the South has begun to push at the King of the North on account of his threatening southward movement, we may well see an ill adjusted Britain out of the Common Market (whose members have little stomach for a confrontation with Russia) and coming down on the side of her traditional partners against Russia.
In his little work “The Exposition of Daniel’s Prophecy”, Dr. Thomas is in my view far more lucid on this point than elsewhere, and his exposition there allows for the existence of both the Iron and the Clay in the final stages of the Kingdom of men.
It seems to me that a Kingdom of men divided against itself is not less the united antagonist of the Kingdom of God, than if it were united among its own constituent parts. I realise that it is not usual to see the situation as such, and, as you say, Dr. Thomas himself sometimes seemed to see it like that (a universal state). We have always considered that the fifth universal empire will be the Kingdom of our Lord and His Christ; and yet, if we are supposing that Russia is to weld the whole world into a single unit against Christ on his return, then we are really saying that the fifth universal empire is Russian.
This re-introduces the West into the picture. We all remember how that our Lord appeared to the aged John, through the Angel, as he languished over the fate of God’s people and the Apocalypse opens with the impression that John, like Daniel so long before, was facing Jerusalem when the Angel appeared behind him with a voice like a trumpet. Turning to see from whence the voice came, he is astonished to behold the golden candlestick associated for centuries with the manifestation of the divine light in Israel, now standing over the New Israel of God in Asia. The western leg of Rome was now the arena of the divine action among men. The western Beast, first as a pagan power, and later as a Christianized force, was to be the Satan of the New Israel, as the eastern oppressors had been of old Israel. The blood of the saints was to be spilled in the Name of Christ by this western part of the Empire.
How does this fit the latter day scene? We know that after the fall of Rome there was a revival, in various guises, of the Empire and bearing in mind that the Roman Church has always considered herself the Kingdom of God on earth, with a divine role to exercise power over the nations, this attempt to establish the Empire has not been dropped. So in recent times we have had the German Beast ridden by the Papacy (see Edmond Paris’ “Vatican against Europe” and H.G. Wells’ “Crux Ansata”). This having failed, the new method of a Europe united peacefully offers greater prospects, and since we know that for “one hour” the kings of the European earth are to be united, being ridden by the scarlet woman, surely we see this being accomplished before our eyes. If we are to suffer persecution during the last days, then it is much more probable to be at the hands of the old enemy of God’s people than that we shall be persecuted by the Eastern Beast.
The iron and the clay remain in ineffective adhesion by detente until the Lord returns. It seems that the West is predominantly iron (even our present Prime Minister has been dubbed by the Russians “The Iron Lady”). The clay distributed widely through the world is Communist, and neither of these elements is in accord with the Kingdom of God, however much our natural bias in favour of our nation prompts us to feel that it is that much less anti-Christ than the Soviet system.
Bro. Thomas, who never expected Britain to share the fate of the Western Empire. I think rightly speaks in the Exposition of Daniel of the Western system being completely terminated as a power; but he observes that the Eastern nations have their lives extended for a season. One can well understand Europe, under the skillful direction of the Papacy, avoiding the dangerous task of combat with modern Russia and content to await the exhaustion of the King of the North and the King of the South at which time, on hearing that a usurper had defeated Russia and had taken over the power in the area, the Papal power, no more pleased to see power in the hands of Christ, who is a rival contender for the Throne of God insofar as the ecclesiastical element in the Western set up is concerned, now comes against the enthroned Lord.
Dr. Thomas seems to me to have got it right here. It fits the prophecy. The Russian host is not said to come against Christ, but against Israel. Who then is this power which comes against the enthroned and victorious Lord but the Beast of Revelation ch.17, so readily identified with Europe under the Papacy? What we have, then, is (in the Eastern and Western development of the Kingdom of men) a prophetic revelation which is progressive in each case, and can well be described by comparison with two parallel telescopes. Both have their origin in Daniel ch.2, where a skeletal picture is given. The eastern telescope is extended in Daniel ch.8. It has a further and more detailed extension in Daniel ch.11. Coming to the latter part of that chapter, we find ourselves with an even more detailed extension in Ezekiel chs.37,38 and 39. This leads us to the Kingdom of God which has travelled by way of God’s natural family through Abraham. The other telescope, beginning again in Daniel ch.2, is extended in Daniel ch.7. There was no need for a further record of this western development, since the new Israel of God had not yet appeared on the scene (that is, in Daniel’s time); but, upon the captivity and dissolution of the ancient people, and the delivering of their land to the alien, the Lord Jesus ascended to heaven and himself continues the telescopic view in Revelation ch.13; we have described the method by which the Eastern Beast of this chapter is used to revive the old Imperialism of the West and how this revived power. will exercise all the evil power which had been exercised by the Eastern Beast on the Ancient People and this came to pass.
The 17th chapter is a further extension of the telescope, and brings us to the time of the end as concerns the spiritual children of Abraham. One has to bear in mind, of course, the interaction of these two manifestations of the Kingdom of men and there have been periods when both the Jews and the spiritual house have come under the influence of some division of the Kingdom of men.
Whether this is a correct interpretation or not, the glad thing for the saints and the people of the saints is that it all ends with the glorious reign of Christ.. May the Father’s blessing be on you all as you endeavour faithfully to present His Holy purpose.
Sincerely your brother in the Lord,
Reg Lake
Sample Correspondence Content Type