Trade Unions
Dear Bro. Don,
Greetings in Christ, soon to appear!
Having recently read The Disciple of Christ and Trade Unions by Bro. C.T. Butler (available from The Christadelphian), I commend the booklet to everyone, particularly those soon to enter the job market. The publication does have, however, a slant to the laws and conditions in the UK. Could someone in our community prepare a short pamphlet of specific information on this subject related to the Canadian experience? This could act as a supplement to Bro. Butler’s guide.
Your brother,
Ron A.A. Hill, Bedford, NS
Megiddo Message
Dear Bro. Don,
Greetings in the one hope we share, made possible through the love of our savior Jesus Christ.
Several months ago, I wrote to you about some people in America who were Christadelphians in Bro. Thomas’ time. They call themselves the Megiddo Church and put out the Megiddo Magazine (published at 481 Thurston Road, Rochester, NY 14619). They were Christadelphians for about 20 years and left because they believed the six days of creation were not literal.
If you start something wrong, the error expands as it goes along. They don’t believe in baptism but they do seem to believe the same as us on the coming of Christ and the setting up of the kingdom. Like us, they oppose church doctrines such as heaven going, immortal souls, trinity, the devil and so on…
Your brother in the one hope,
Allan Taylor, Christchurch, NZ
We had never heard of this group before and wonder if anyone knows anything about them?
Misbehaving Husband
Dear Bro. Styles,
Greetings in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am writing in response to a letter to the editor in the September issue headed “Aunt Sarah Rebuked.”
Without passing any comment on the letter itself, which refers to a previous letter, it seems to me that one aspect may have been overlooked. In any dealings with another where we have a problem, Jesus tells us what to do in Matt. 18:15- 17 . Here we are told to discuss the matter between the two parties themselves with the object of gaining our brother. However, if he neglects to hear the wife in this case, then she should take one or two more (probably arranging brethren) in the hope he will listen to them. If the brother’s behavior does not improve to that Christlike character required of a brother, then the whole ecclesia must act. This process applies equally to a marriage situation as to any other. The object of the action is to save the brother.
Sincerely your brother by grace,
Terry Fearn, Coquitlam, BC
Great caution should be exercised in applying Matt. 18 to marital problems. True, husband and wife should communicate regarding troublesome matters. Such failure of communication is probably an important reason why some problems that start small become marriage-threatening.
Getting others involved, however, needs to be done very carefully. Marital problems are generally highly personal in nature and there are usually two sides to the story. Involving others too quickly could lead to gossip and could result in the husband or wife being too embarrassed to associate freely with the ecclesia.
In extreme cases, the ecclesia should become involved as marital misbehavior can be grounds for disfellowship. But we need to remember that Matt. 18 addresses conduct that can justifiably result in disfellowship if it is not corrected. In this passage, the Lord is not talking about the myriad personal grievances and misunderstandings which occur, but about a matter so serious that a person is “to be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican” if they do not straighten out. In most cases of personal grievance, forgiveness should be exercised and the matter dropped.
Objection To “Traditional”
Dear Brother Don,
Greetings in the one hope.
I have said before, and I will say again that I appreciate “The Tidings” immensely; the opportunity to compare notes on points of scripture and share information important to the Brotherhood is wonderful and much needed.
However, I am upset with the rigidity of some of us about what is referred to as “the traditional Christadelphian viewpoint.”
Regarding the “traditional viewpoint” and the Russians conquering Israel: a large portion of the USSR is Muslim. I believe that prophesy points out locations of nations rather than names of nations. The suggestion oj Arabs rather than Russia (perhaps more likely as an instrument or ally) goes back over 20 years, and I persona) believe it has merit, but I have not done such an in-depth study that I would exclude either view.
I guess my problem is with the word “traditional.” Christadelphians should have no traditions. We do, of course, but we must not interpret the scripture with traditions..Dr. Thomas did a wonderful job of interpreting the scriptures almost 150 years ago. Think what he might have done today, having viewed so much more history and perhaps having access to a computer with Bible study aids to accomplish so much more in a shorter time. There are those in our midst that are doing that and I believe they have an obligation to present their findings just as each of us has an obligation to review the material responsibly.
Your sister in Christ,
Judith B inch, Tylersport, PA
We ought not to be over-sensitive to the use of “traditional” in describing a widely-held idea in the community. Normally, it is used as verbal short-hand for describing a point of view on a non first-principle topic.
It doesn’t make any difference to any of us whether the scriptures stipulate Israel’s last defeat will be at the hands of the Arabs or a Russo-European-Muslim coalition. Whatever the Lord reveals, we will accept. What is bothersome is to see brethren advance as proof for a point of view verses which do not come close to confirming their case. Careful Bible study has forced us to stand apart from modern-day Christendom and we do not want to see that heritage of careful Bible study dissipated in the community. As indicated by several articles in the magazine, we feel a number of passages have been wrested to support the Arabs-will-defeat-Israel point. Such wresting of scripture bothers us no matter what topic is involved.
Whether or not Bro. Thomas would have benefited from computer Bible study aids is open to question. Nothing can substitute for having the Word of God in our minds. We can then do a mental “scan” of scripture consciously or sub-consciously no matter where we are. Upon reading the writings of Bro. Thomas, we get the distinct impression he had such a recollection of scripture that accessing a computer would have been unnecessary and would not have changed his conclusions.
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
Dear Brother Styles,
Greetings in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I was reading the Letters to the Editor in the Sept. issue, particularly the letter from a sister requesting clarification of points raised on Deut. 24:1-4. I have not read the original article but comment on the points you give in your reply.
- The instruction in v.1, “let him write her a bill of divorcement” is supported by the Greek translation of the O.T. which reads, “he shall write for her a bill of divorcement.” It seems clear from Matt. 19:7 that the Jews understood this passage to be a command from God by the hand of Moses. There is no correction by Jesus if they were mistaken in their understanding of this being a command. In fact, Jesus goes on to show that this command was given for those who were unable to live up to the Edenic ideal. He further shows the limitation of its application in v.9 and in so doing he clearly accepts the command as coming from God.
- It seems incongruous that, having prescribed the action to take in writing a bill of divorce and permitting her to go and be another’ s wife, to then say she is not a wife. The Heb. word in v2 for “wife” is the very word used in Gen. 2:24 of Eve as the wife of Adam and is the common word for a wife. Surely if there had been an intention by God to convey a difference when the divorced woman went to be another’ s wife, He would have used a different kind of phraseology.
Regarding the different words used of “husband” in v.3 and v.4, it is incorrect to maintain “this suggests the two unions were not regarded the same by God.” If we look at Gen. 20:3 and 7, we see God is speaking to Abimelech about Sarah whom he had taken to himself on the understanding she was Abraham’s sister. In v.3, she is referred to as “a man’s wife” where the margin has “married to a husband” and the Heb. word is baal. God continues in v.7, “now therefore restore the man his wife” where the Heb. word is ish. Obviously the same marriage is being spoken of and the two different Hebrew words are used synonymously. Therefore, to suggest the two unions in Deut. 24 were not regarded the same by God would appear to be incorrect.
- The defiling in v.4 is clearly the consummation of the second marriage as you rightly point out. The defiling of Lev. 15:18 clearly applied to all marriages when intercourse had taken place. In Deut. 24, the point being made by God is that divorce must not be undertaken lightly. When the first husband has thought over the matter and wants his wife back, he would not be able to get her if she has married another.
I hope this helps in a clearer understanding of these verses which, of course, have received much discussion over the years. One has to be careful when being so dogmatic as you are at the conclusion of this section in your reply. As you are aware, from the days of Bro. Thomas, the exceptive clause in Matt. 19, which is taken from Deut. 24, has been the only passage which has been accepted as the grounds for divorce.
Sincerely your brother by grace,
Terry Fearn, Coquitlam, BC
Christ’s comments as recorded in Matt. 19:7-9 seems to us a clear commentary on Deut. 24:1-4. The Pharisees read the passage as God through Moses commanding divorce if a man found some uncleanness in his wife. Christ corrected their view with the words, “Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives.” God did not command divorce in this circumstance, He suffered (allowed) it because of the hardness of their hearts (as noted elsewhere, hardhearted people will not be saved as long as they remain in such a disposition). As the original article pointed out, the KW stands virtually alone among all English translations in failing to convey the very point made by the Lord. In Deut. 24, God regulated something that was going to happen because many Israelites would be hardhearted. He was not encouraging or commanding divorce.
While recognizing that ish and baal can be used interchangeably, we feel the difference in terms for the first and second husbands and speaking of the second marriage as defiling the woman is worth noting. It reflects God’s abhorrence of divorce as clearly indicated by the Master in Matt. 19:3-6. However, you are correct in noting that baal and ish are used as synonyms.
The exceptive clause is not based on Deut. 24. Under the law, sexual infidelity terminated a marriage because of the death of the guilty party (Deut. 22:22). Deut. 24 is therefore not regulating a case of sexual infidelity. The exceptive clause takes the place of Deut. 22:22. Such a change was necessary as the believers do not have the right to implement capital punishment. Actually, in many cases a believer attempting to reflect the spirit of Matt. 18:21-22 and 19:3-7 would practice forgiveness rather than divorce.
Dear Bro. Don:
Bro. Andy Muniz’ letter (“Tidings,” Nov. ‘ 91 ) misses the point of Deut.24 :1- 4 and your response, it seems to me, misses the point of Bro. Andy’s letter! You have added another dimension to the discussion of Deut. 24, that being the question of whether or not a second marriage is “a state of adultery.” That question is a huge problem in itself
With regard to divorce, let’s keep it simple and stay with scripture. Except for two references to one Hebrew word, Bro. Andy gives no scriptural proof whatsoever for his assumptions that both divorce and remarriage are not sins. He is wrong on both counts.
This letter deals only with divorce. Two passages are pertinent. Mal. 2:16: “For I hate divorce, says the LORD” (NAS) because “you have dealt treacherously” against “the wife of your youth” (v.14). Can anyone argue that that which God hates is not a sin?
Further, Jesus himself deals only with divorce, supplying the answer to Deut. 24. In response to the Pharisees’ question – only about divorce – Jesus said, in effect: “Yes, Moses ‘suffered’ you to divorce because of your hard hearts.” Rom. 2:5 warns: “by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath” (RSV). Israel was denied entrance to the promised land (typical of eternal life in the kingdom of God) because of an “evil and hard heart ‘ (Heb. 3:8,12). Their hearts were hardened by “the deceitfulness of sin” (v. 13). In other words: a hardhearted man will not gain the kingdom because of his sin.
God hates divorce because it is a deliberate, sinful act which breaks His marriage covenant instituted in the garden of Eden. Why cannot brethren accept the crystal clear teaching of scripture instead of adopting the humanistic fashion of trying to circumvent the will of our heavenly Father by the use of specious and circumlocutory arguments which are not based solidly on scripture?
H.D . Bartholomew, Okanagan Ctl., BC
We will let Bro. Muniz answer for himself, which he does in the following letter. We interjected the “state of adultery” point into the discussion because we feel that is the unstated reason why Deut. 24 is getting so much attention. After all, Deut. 24 was a statute which was nailed to the cross and is no longer binding on anyone.
In ecclesial life today, the facts we face are that 1) God hates divorce; 2) God is forgiving. When someone who has divorced another seeks baptism or refellowship, what should we do? If they admit they have sinned and are truly repentant, is their sin unforgivable? No, the only unforgivable sin is calling the power of God the power of wickedness or utterly forsaking the Truth after we have accepted it (Matt. 12:22-32; Heb. 10:25-29).
Now if the person who has divorced another has remarried, are they living in a “state of adultery?” If they are, obviously, no matter how sorry they may feel about their sin, they cannot be baptized or refellowshipped until they put away their existing partner. Thus in real life, the “state-of-adultery” issue is critical as to how the ecclesia handles real cases. That is why we mentioned the point.
Dear Bro. Don,
In his letter, Bro. Bartholomew has made two appealing but incorrect assumptions.
First, he has asserted that because God hates a man treacherously putting away the wife of his youth, (the context of Malachi 2:16) divorce is always sin in any circumstance imaginable. This cannot be the case because God put away Israel giving her a bill of divorcement (Jer. 3:8). While one may argue the language is somewhat figurative, it is hard to ignore the precedent. Israel had committed whoredoms years without end until a merciful husband finally put her away rather than terminating her existence.
Second, Bro. Bartholomew has assumed that in Matt. 19 Christ is saying that in a divorce, the hard of heart is always the one initiating the divorce action. What of Joseph who was a “just” man and manifested it by seeking to put Mary away privately because of her presumed unfaithfulness (Matt. 1:19).
The case of Joseph directs us to recognize a situation which could occur. A hard-hearted woman who persistently practiced infidelity could be married to a merciful man who would rather give her a bill of divorcement than have her stoned (Deut. 22:22). True, hardness of heart was involved, but the hardness was on the part of the wife, not the husband.
Your brother in Christ,
Andy Muniz, Clarkston, MI